moggy lover

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Posts by moggy lover

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  4

  300 million people worldwide now have broadband - Watch out WT!!!

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  great article and another whammy for wt defenses.... http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2102652,00.html.

  china overtaking us for fast internet access as africa gets left behind.

  one in five people in the world has high-speed lines but the gap is growing.

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  moggy lover

  Evidently the growth of the world wide web in Korea is beginning to have an adverse on WT statistics in that country. Their growth rate is barely 1%, now totally 93 000 followers.

  Cheers
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  44

  Blessed be the name of Jehovah forever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  by unbaptized in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just wanted to bless jehovah's name, the only name that is above the heavens that can save mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  !.

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  moggy lover

  Thanks ever so much for your theological perception.

  Now.....were you making that up?.......or do you think that sentiment, noble in itself, is based on scripture? If so then please share it with us. If you can locate something even remotely resembling your idea in the Bible, then I will rejoin the blocktower movement right away.

  The only name ascribing salvation for mankind, whether above or below heaven, is the name found at Acts 4:12.

  Cheers
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  20

  "God's Plan of Salvation - from a Cat's Point of View"

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just yesterday i discovered that my cat rutherford has been preparing a manuscript for publication.. it is a real eye-opener..

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  moggy lover

  Lucky you, Stephanus, my cat thinks she's the god-person in the family!!

  Cheers
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  33

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 6-17-07 WT Study (DO NOT PUT APART)

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do not put apart what god has yoked together.

  therefore, what god has yoked together let no man put apart.

  (b) why do the principles found in god's word really work, even when problems arise in a marriage?.

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  moggy lover

  Good stuff, Blondie. It always amuses me when the WTS brings out articles such as this which reduce interpersonal relationships to an intellectual level as if those already with problems that have developed seismic strains are either capable or willing to apply simple, articulated concepts as a solution.

  The impression I get from this article is the total remoteness of the anonymous writers, and their assumption that what they are writing is actually of relevance to the readers. I feel that these writers don't really give a toss about the R&F membership and their marital problems, just that they have this asignment to write this article about of marriage and after suitably approved comments at the requisite WT study the whole thing can be discarded to await some other anonymous article written in the same vein. Well, keeps a buch of writers who are out of touch with reality employed, I suppose.

  How the hell did you think of Lerner and Lowe, then "My Fair Lady" hmmmm? Methinks you are watching too many musicals, and not doing enough "Bible based literature" study.

  Cheers

  And Keep it Up.
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  16

  Women aren't suppose to be ministers..says who?

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been hearing this from the 7 day advantist, church of christ and jws, and was show 1 cor 14:36 as proof.

  but, i decided to read the context of the verse....and it paints a different picture, atleast imo (ps i am not saying that females should be heads of congerations, now that is out of order.

  ) i'm using the message translation, for clarity.

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  moggy lover

  I am not aware of any Evangelical Christian belief system that relegates women to a subservient role in ministry, with the exception perhaps of some extreme fundamentalist groups, who attempt to read more into Scripture than that which is available.

  Women feature prominently in the NT as participating in community worship, and often even as specially appointed church officials, and as co-workers with the apostles.The dress codes that Paul outlined in 1Cor 11:2-16 interestingly enough, give careful directives concerning how men and women who were leading congregational worship were to be attired. That the women needed a head covering did not deny them a leadership role, remember, but that when leading [vs 5] a woman had an indication of her leadership position. In this respect a careful reading of the passage provides the assumption that women will be leading mixed congregations in prayer and prophecy. That these two features of worship consisted, in degrees of leadership roles, can be seen in that Paul explained at 1Cor 14:3, 24-25, that prophecy included preaching and teaching.

  Today we associate these functions with those of an ordained minister within a denominational code.

  For some reason which Paul leaves undiscussed, the leadership roles of elders and deacons, mentioned in 1Tim 3, and Tit 1, were assigned to what exclusively appear to be males. However there is some indication that for deacons at least, this was not so strongly gender based. At Ro 16:1, Paul refers to one Phoebe, who is described as a "diaconos" of the church that met at Cenchrea. Whereas it is possible to translate this word as "servant" as does the NASV, it is far more probable that, since the word is used in circumstances relevant to church worship, that it be rendered as "minister" or "deacon" as does 1Tim 3:8. I hasten to add that NASV is not as as anti feminine as their translation at Ro 16:1 would suggest, since they tacitly acknowledge the use of "minister" in their footnote. I can quote at least two translations that even use "deacon" here: "Nathaniel Scarlett's NT" translation of 1798, and the recently published "Source NT" translated by Dr Ann Nyland, Prof. of Classics and Ancient History, at the U of New England, NSW, Aust. [pub 2004]

  Paul speaks with fondness of women who were his co-workers, [Phil 4:3] certainly indicating equality in ministering, and it may even be possible to see in Junia, mentioned at Ro 16:7, a women of the rank of apostle.

  There are many ordained women in many Protestant denominations The Assemblies of God [charismatic], Baptist, Disciples of Christ [known as The Churches of Christ in UK/Aust] Methodists, Lutheran, Presbyterian among others. In these denominations women participate in the same areas of ministry as their male counterparts, and, are paid equally [See Evangelical Dict of Theology pg 1182]

  Much of the confusion regarding the subservience of women comes from an incorrect or at least detrimental understanding of the phrase that the "man is the head of the women" annunciated by Paul at 1Cor 11:3. It needs to be learnt by some men at least, that Paul did not spell "head" as "B-O-S-S"

  In fact we have several women ministers on JWD, Blondie is our WT Study Conductor, and Leolaia our Presiding Overseer. I mean, what more do you girls want?

  Cheers
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  9

  Become a Watchtower Writer ! (sort of)

  by AlphaOmega in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is the challenge.... you are all well versed in watchtower logic and their ability to link bible passages that have no connections, so.... i was wondering whether anyone can post articles or snippets of articles that we could write in wt style to "prove" unlikely beliefs.. a good example would be the "are cats for christians" - however, i am not thinking of anything as long as that.. this will have a serious application - to show by humour that wt logic can be used to prove anything and still make it look scriptural.. any takers ?.

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  moggy lover

  OK, here's one:

  1 We are to love our enemies right? [Matt 5:44]

  2 Satan is our enemy [1Pet 5:8]

  3 Therefore we must love satan [Which may explain why the GB resorts to such occult practices as consulting the dead, like taking direction from already dead members of the FDS]

  Here's another:

  1 We must love our enemies [Matt 5:44]

  2 Death is our enemy [1 Cor 15:26]

  3 So we must love death, rather than life, so, after leaving all our property to the GB, the only purpose we may serve is to commit suicide.

  Hell, while we're on a roll lets have another:

  1 Elohim created the universe: Gen 1:1

  2 According to the WTS the judges of Israel were elohim [Ps 82:6]

  3 Therefore the judges of Israel created the universe.

  Ouch! My brain hurts

  Cheers
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  3

  Deut 14:21 & Lev 17:15

  by kicky in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jun 14, 2007. .

  question:.

  i am trying to understand deut 14:21 and lev 17:15.. it seems to me lev 17:15 is referring to a case where someone (jew or alien) in hunting finds an already dead animal...is this correct?

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  moggy lover

  Right on both counts.

  Lev 17 may be divided into two sections with regard to the prohibition of eating animal blood. [No consideration is given to the consumption of human blood] Vss 1-12 involve the blood of sacrificial animals, ie those that were clean, and had cost the sacrificer something. Game that was hunted was not acceptable since it did not cost the sacrificer anything.

  Vss 13-16 involve the blood of non-sacrificial animals which were acquired as a result of a hunt, these would include: 1 wild animals, which may be eaten if the blood had been drained 2 Wild animals killed by other wild animals. Eating the second class was permissible, evidently because it served as a source of food, but the remembrance of having violated a ritual code, brought about an awareness of being unclean. The Mosaic code was if not, pragmatic in its sanctions. Incidentally, the animals hunted still had to be "clean" beasts. Wild boar for instance could never be eaten, but antelopes could, even if torn by other wild animals

  Deut 14:21 involved domestic clean animals that had died of themselves. Again pragmatism dictated that, rather than waste the valuable source of food, those outside the liturgical code of Yahweh could be granted access to it. Guests, "alien residents" were to be given this meat free, while the worshiper of Yahweh may sell it to a stranger.

  Cheers
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  19

  1 Tim 3:1-10 promotes an organisation

  by besty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  speaking with a hardline friend (oxymoron alert) tonight he used the above verse as proof that jehovah needs a hierarchical organization - otherwise why stratify the membership?

  any refutation?

  cheers .

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  moggy lover

  I think that the major problem that the WTS leadership has is the conclusion they draw is that it is God who "needs" a hierarchical organization. There is certainly no indication anywhere in Scripture of this divine "need". All we do have is the obvious need for the community of believers, either local or trans-cosmopolitan who have such a need. People, and not God, require some sort of regularity in teaching and worship. Hence the creation of some provision that could satisfy this need, in the form of church leadership.

  The provisions laid down in the NT writings regarding these leaders or "overseers" and "deacons" is always directed toward the local community, or church. Whether this collection of churches, in the NT era were indeed "organizationally" tied in together into a single wider commonwealth is a matter of debate. Many of the churches today, who favour this idea, like the RC Church, and other Protestant Liturgical churches actually point to later developments that evolved in Church government, changes that first began to emerge in the 3rd C AD. In fact, interestingly, Ray Franz in his second book, ISOCF, [pgs 38-68, in the chapter entitled "Centralized Authority"] points to the remarkable similarity between the highly centralized authority structure of the present day WT authority structure, and these later developments in the church. Of particular relevance is pg 60 where Franz compares the arguments found in "The Treaties of Cyprian" written in the early 3rdC AD with those found in the WT of Feb 1st 1952. The illustration used by Cyprian to demand submission to a universal hierarchical arrangement, that of Korah, finds an uncanny echo in the WT material.

  But that the NT lays out only a modicum of instructions certainly may suggest a susceptibility to further development, as long as this development does not violate the spirit of Apostolic times.

  The NT portrays the various NT communities of believers as scattered and vibrant in their growth, with the bond that brought unity being a common love for Christ. It was this, and not an imposed artifice of doctrinal probity, emanating from a centralized point of authority, that kept these churches together. The common bond that united them was that they were believers in a unique Person. And his name certainly wasn't "jehover"

  In accepting the Scripture record as given, one cannot rule out the undergirding that the supernatural played in this. The original apostles and evangelists, had a faith in the working of the Holy Spirit in ensuring that the teaching about Christ and the Christian body politic would be protected. It was this, and not human intrusion that ensured unity. The book of Acts continually attributes such conditions as growth and unity to the work of the Holy Spirit, and not to human "organization" [Act 11,15,20, etc]

  Evangelical Christians, both Reformed and Dispensational, accept a teaching called "The Ministry of the Holy Spirit" which includes His work of appointing local leaders, such as overseers, pastors, deacons. Whether this was done by traveling Christians charged with the responsibility of being "Evangelists" [Ac 14:23] or some other means, such as a nascent democracy [Ac 6:3] or even the drawing of lots [Ac 1:26] is apprehended by the fact that it was the ultimate task of the Holy Spirit.

  Having said that there is a broad consensus of opinion on this work, however, there is also a need to point out that, because of the insufficiency of data in the NT, there is a measure of disagreement on how this operated in practical terms, in NT times. Roughly, there are three separate conclusions that Christians draw from the meager, and scattered, facts we have at hand.

  1 The primitive NT Church may have been hierarchical in structure [as found in the RCs and the WT Movement] This may be the least plausible of possibilities, since we know that several theologians had to argue for its existence in the 3rdC AD. This suggests that it was not an original concept

  2 Presbyterianism. This is the idea most favoured by the Reformed churches [Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist etc] This sees a body of elders ruling in a local church, but being attached to the wider body of believers by a "synod" that convenes regularly to address issues of concern to the wider community

  3 Congregational. This is favoured by Dispensational churches such as the Baptists, the Brethren, etc.As the name implies, this places emphasis on the local community as being independent of, but interdependent with, other communities. They may have a single person as leader, or a body of elders.

  When the WT Movement began under the aegis of CT Russell, the 3rd option was the preferred method of operation. In this respect, the current structure of the WTS is an extension of Rutherfordism, since it was he, in one of his brief moments of sobriety, who payed a tacit acknowledgment to the RC Church, which he stridently claimed to despise, by rearranging his movement in their image

  Cheers
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  182

  What's your all-time favorite Song by musician ? Name Song and Artist

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  flipper again.

  personally my all time favorite song?

  stairway to heaven by led zeppelin.one of my top favorite groups ,too.

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  moggy lover

  "Don't Stop" by Fleetwood Mac
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  4

  World's Worst Inventions...

  by Jim_TX in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you feel is the world's worst invention(s)?.

  i think that those 'leaf blowers' are pretty useless.

  all they do is move stuff around - making it someone elses' problem.. regards,.

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  moggy lover

  Sliced bread!!

  I usedta love cutting me own bloody slices, and thick too. I mean real thick...... So I like eating bread with these dollops of butter... OK?

  Then along comes this jerk who invents "sliced bread" in fact this nameless gorm has gone into legend everytime we use the expression "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread".....gggrrr .....let me at 'im.... the sod.

  Now....letmesee....all I gotta do is get the hang of these ring tops on the beer....

  Cheers